Template talk:Disambig

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Template:Disambig is permanently protected from editing, as it is a heavily used or visible template. Substantial changes should be proposed here, and made by administrators if the proposal is uncontroversial, or has been discussed and is supported by consensus. Use {{editprotected}} to attract the attention of an administrator in such cases. Any contributor may edit the template's documentation to add usage notes, categories or interwiki links.

DisambiguationWikipedia:WikiProject DisambiguationTemplate:DisambigProjectDisambiguation articles		WikiProject Disambiguation
	v • d • e This template is within the scope of WikiProject Disambiguation, an attempt to structure and organize all disambiguation pages on Wikipedia. If you wish to help, you can edit the page attached to this talk page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.

Archives
12 Dec 2003 – 22 Mar 2004 15 Jun 2004 – 4 March 2006

Contents 1 Suggestion for change of message's wording 2 Image 3 Disambiguation link 4 Page-specific disambiguation? 5 Eu InterWiki 6 Lines 7 The new image 8 kn Interwiki 9 Image alignment 10 Interwiki link for Serbian language Wikipedia 11 Interwiki link for Romani Wikipedia 12 Some disambiguation pages have no image at all! 13 Change Background colour of table 14 Improving template code 15 Interwiki for bs wiki 16 Keep it simple! 17 Formatting text size 18 Internal link text 19 Acknowledge Automatic Categorization 20 Whatlinkshere on main namespace only 21 The size of the table of the template 22 Template for top of the page 23 Link to search results on disambig pages 23.1 Admin action requested 24 make {{disambig}} more ambiguous :) 25 Protected template 26 The picture... 27 Bug: 28 Message 29 Linking from from base name dab to (disambiguation) redirect 30 Combining this with disambig-cleanup 31 Rewording? 32 Improve wording and organization 33 Please update 33.1 Please update (2) 33.2 Shared error reporting with ((SIA)) 34 Yet another branch 35 Category:All disambiguation pages 36 Interwiki 37 Player Manager

[edit] Suggestion for change of message's wording

I added some text to this message in response to WP:ASR, but it's commented out right now because I don't want to immediately add it and risk it getting removed before the addition was discussed. I'd like it to read:

"If you are viewing this page online as opposed to as a hard copy and an internal link referred you here, you may wish to change the link to point directly to the intended article."

--  Denelson83  07:42, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Probably best to discuss any change first when a template is used on something like 40,000 pages (I wonder if it effects the job queue with html comments?). Anyway, bring this up at Wikipedia:Disambiguation to garner some attention, it's little quiet here usually.

Now, back to business. I don't think the addition is necessary. If you want avoid self-references perhaps remove the whole internal link sentence? I'm also a little unclear of the aim - is this for the tiny proportion of people who print out our disambiguation pages? Or is it for the printed version that we are going to make one day? In the printed version we will simply remove all self references, rather than this "hard copy" mention.--Commander Keane 07:59, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I also don't quite see what this accomplishes. WP:ASR has some specific declarations regards template usage and disambguation: Limited use of self-references are sometimes found in the Template namespace and the Category namespace, such as with disambiguation and stub notices. Also, the commented out text appears to add a small amount of extra space. older ≠ wiser 13:39, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image

I suggest a image in the template so the readers easy can se what a disambiguation page is about. I know that this earlier suggestions like this has been bringed up and rejected, but I attempting to make a compromise.

The current template:

Disambiguation template with a image:

--89p 12:51, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

• This has been discussed before, I think - the reason for no image is that the template is so heavily transcluded that it would put a strain on the servers. BD2412 T 14:27, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

---

The issue of server-straining images has been brought up and dismissed by stub sorters concerned with icons on heavily-transcluded stub templates. Including this image would not really have any significant bandwidth impact - it's only 1050 bytes, and thanks to browser caching, no one is even going to download it more than once. It's a good, simple image, and I think it will help make disambiguation pages more consistent-looking. Requesting that an administrator make this change. ~ Booya ^Bazooka 01:52, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree that we could have an image. I would personally prefer the colored disambiguation fork , but I will wait for some more discussion before implementing such a change. Kusma (討論) 11:58, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I also like the colored version and agree that 'server strain' is not an issue. I do worry about making the template bigger though, and would thus suggest using the smallest image size at which the picture is still viable. Perhaps 25px;

Here is someone else who favors the colored image. :) -andy 80.129.122.8 06:00, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

If the image 'hangs down' past the bottom of the template it may force indentation of text below the disambig notice (as happens above with Booya's comment at small font settings). --CBD 12:17, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps adding a min-height value appropriate to the size of the image to the div style would fix that? --80.176.94.69 19:22, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I believe some browsers don't support min-height. I think putting it in a table would do the trick, though:

And I'm still a fan of the gray, but I could go either way. ~ Booya ^Bazooka 21:33, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I prefer the monochrome version too: less distracting, and totally gets the point across, and the 35-px image is just right. Colour might be okay, but I think it would be better if it was subdued, like the rest of the monobook skin. A <br clear="all" /> should be all that is needed to keep the image inside the borders:

I put in the grey version for now. Can re-evaluate if that brings more people here with opinions on this matter. --CBD 20:50, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm here to voice my support of the image. It makes identifying a page as a disambiguation page to an experienced user much faster. I know instantly when that image is present that I'm looking at a disambiguation page—no reading required. Nohat 00:47, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I really like the new image, too. Question: is this image meant to be used on the other disambig templates as well? ({{geodis}}, {{hndis}}, {{numberdis}}, {{roaddis}}, and {{schooldis}}) --Mark Yen 01:03, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Looks good, I only question the formatting; the vertical alignment looks funny. What was wrong with the table setup I proposed? ~ Booya ^Bazooka 03:27, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Nothing wrong with it. Since there were alot of different ideas I just took the most recent to get the ball rolling / see if other users would show up to dispute the use of an image at all / et cetera. If people prefer a different version, want to put the image on other disambig templates, et cetera... it's all good by me. Just need to work out some sort of consensus and implement it. --CBD 14:29, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I Like the color one better. It gets across the idea of "disambiguation" better IMO. Many of the other WPs seem to use it... anyone else agree? ... Though I'm not sure if it would be approperate for other disamig templates.... -Aknorals 00:56, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Maybe colored, but lighter? ~ Booya ^Bazooka 03:34, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Another vote of support for the new grey image, I think it looks great. --SevereTireDamage 05:09, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Aknorals, I don't see how the coloured one gets the idea across better, as long as the grey tones have enough contrast to distinguish the alternate arrow—perhaps that needs to be improved. All that adding colour accomplishes is to needlessly catch the eye from way across the page. —Michael Z. 2006-08-14 06:44 Z

At my resolution, I can't even see that the darer grey one is even an arrow. =P For the record, I just saw the ligher one, and actually it looks nicer than the other options (and is more clear, sense it's outlined). -Aknorals 09:07, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like the contrast in the monochrome template should be increased, by darkening the darker arrow. —Michael Z. 2006-08-14 13:17 Z

Whatever image/style we decide on, Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links/Userbox and other 'disambig image' uses should probably be set to match. Overall it seems like the grey has the most support currently. --CBD 12:18, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Hrm, try asking the people who work on disambiguation link repair what they like... they should probably have their say =P -Aknorals 12:53, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation link

As this page is a disambiguation page could the disambiguation link be to Wikipedia:Manual of Style (disambiguation pages) instead of Wikipedia:Disambiguation. Rex the first ^{talk | contribs} 12:36, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the {{Editprotected}}. That change seems a little controversial, you need to have a discussion to see what the consensus is.--Commander Keane 15:47, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

How do I get some discussion on it then! Rex the first ^{talk | contribs} 15:38, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Manual of Style (disambiguation pages) more or less refers to styling the page and is more aimed at editors of Wikipedia. The template gets viewed by all viewers and there are many people who aren't aware of the concept of disambiguation. Wikipedia:Disambiguation deals more with the concept rather than the style and is more suided to all users. Harryboyles 13:37, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Page-specific disambiguation?

After reading an article about kudzu, it occurred to me that a disambiguation along these lines could help some readers:

"This article is about the kudzu plant. To read about the comic strip of the same name, see Kudzu (comic strip)."

Does a template already exist for page-specific disambiguations, or do they need to be added manually? Please let me know; I couldn't find the information in the editing help manual. ISNorden 23:32, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Try {{Otheruses4}}. (…No, I don't like its name, either.)

Keep in mind: Wiki etiquette dictates that it's better to link directly to a disambiguation page than to "play favorites" with a specific alternate article link. —Down10 ^TACO 23:42, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

It seems as if I should create a disambig page from scratch and rename the plant article accordingly. Is that the suggestion you had in mind, and will I need to correct individual links to "Kudzu" after this change? The "What links here" list is very, very long for that page...

--Ingeborg S. Nordén 15:41, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

No, the plant kudzu is very likely the primary meaning for the term. I think the suggestion was to create Kudzu (disambiguation) containing links to all the alternate uses of the term and then add a not to the top of the kudzu article saying For other uses, see Kudzu (disambiguation). This is the typical course where there are multiple alternate meanings. However, if there is only the plant and the comic strip, then you can use {{Otheruses4}} to add a different note to the top of Kudzu. for example something like this:

{{Otheruses4|the plant|the comic strip|Kudzu (comic strip)}}

would add the following note:

This page is about the plant. For the comic strip, see Kudzu (comic strip).

older ≠ wiser 16:28, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

The plant and the comic strip are indeed the only uses, as far as I know. I'll go ahead with the {{{{[[Template:Otheruses4|Otheruses4]]}} edit, since it uses the least space and won't disrupt links. --Ingeborg S. Nordén 22:24, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Eu InterWiki

Please, add the next interwiki if it is possible: eu:Txantiloi:Argipen. Thanks.--Berria 21:15, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Done.--Commander Keane 23:58, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lines

I'm trying to convert this for another wiki. How were the lines at the top and the bottom created? --Liface 17:20, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Using the CSS class id="disambig". At MediaWiki:Common.css you can see

#disambig {
    border-top: 3px double #cccccc; 
    border-bottom: 3px double #cccccc;
}

That's how it is done :-) --Commander Keane 01:41, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The new image

I disagree with the newly added image added to the disambig (see left). While images are suggestive, I believe it it is distracting, and we would be better off with a text-only note. Comments? Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 20:12, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I like the image. Having an unobtrustive icon is just good user interface design. — Saxifrage ✎ 21:00, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I like the image too. I have long wondered why English was the only large Wikipedia project whose disambig template didn't have this image on it. (We're still the only ones to have it in black-and-white instead of color.) User:Angr 07:48, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

You are right. The German one also has the colored one, and I'm happy we're still sticking to it! :P The grey one looks so ugly and technical. This is an encyclopedia, no dissertation (*yawn*).-andy 80.129.122.8 06:00, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] kn Interwiki

Please include the interwiki to Kannada language articke, kn:Template:ದ್ವಂದ್ವ ನಿವಾರಣೆ Thanks. - KNM ^{Talk - Contribs} 22:24, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Done. —Mets501 (talk) 14:33, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image alignment

I suggested this earlier, but I think it got ignored amongst the discussion of whether to include an image. The vertical positioning of our new icon is bugging me, and I'd like to propose this change to make it line up with the text:

~ Booya ^Bazooka 04:57, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely agree. -b 05:00, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Done. Kusma (討論) 11:55, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Interwiki link for Serbian language Wikipedia

Please add interwiki link for Serbian language Wikipedia. The link is:

[[sr:Шаблон:Вишезначна одредница]]

Thank you. --Branislav Jovanovic 11:50, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Done. Kusma (討論) 11:55, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you again. --Branislav Jovanovic 06:23, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Interwiki link for Romani Wikipedia

Please add also the interwiki link for Romani Wikipedia: [[rmy:Sikavno:Dudalipen]] Desiphral-देसीफ्राल talk-फेन मा 10:49, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Done. --Fang Aili ^talk 15:51, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Some disambiguation pages have no image at all!

Example: Plant. Don't you guys think we should use EITHER version of the trident symbol for these better than none at all? Currently all those articles (and there are 100,000s of them!) look as if there is something missing. :/ -andy 80.129.122.8 06:03, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I do not understand your qualm; Plant is not a disambig page. Perhaps you are confusing disambig with dablink? ~ Booya ^Bazooka 06:15, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Change Background colour of table

Currently the code of the template is:

<div class="notice metadata" id="disambig" >
{|
|style="vertical-align:middle;"|[[Image:Disambig gray.svg|30px]]
|style="vertical-align:middle;"|''This [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation|disambiguation]] page lists ..., (etc)''
|}</div>

This means that, because I've customised my monobook skin, the table is white all the time. Can we add the code:

style="background:none"

so that it is:

<div class="notice metadata" id="disambig" >
{| style="background:none"
|style="vertical-align:middle;"|[[Image:Disambig gray.svg|30px]]
|style="vertical-align:middle;"|''This [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation|disambiguation]] page lists ..., (etc)''
|}</div>

and the table is transparent. Harryboyles 06:44, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Done --  Netsnipe  ►  16:55, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Improving template code

Please see MediaWiki talk:Common.css#Improving template code for a suggestion as to how this template can be improved. —Michael Z. 2006-11-06 22:03 Z

[edit] Interwiki for bs wiki

Please add the following code for bosnian interwiki:

bs:Šablon:Čvor

Thanks, --Emx 17:12, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Keep it simple!

{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}

->

{{FULLPAGENAME}}

 ;) Frigglinn 15:56, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Done. —Centrx→talk • 14:41, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Formatting text size

Since most users won't be concerned with the following text:

If an internal link led you here, you may wish to change the link to point directly to the intended article.

perhaps it could be inset in <small></small> tags. Maybe even (but probably not) <font color="gray"></font> tags, to make it even less noticeable. A skilled editor will still see it, and respond as intended - Jack (talk) 04:28, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is a user-written encyclopedia. People should be encouraged wherever possible to help out, and this is a relatively simple thing for any inexperienced reader to do. —Centrx→talk • 23:18, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Internal link text

Should there be a version of this template without the "If an internal link led you here..." text? Is it likely than an internal link will lead you to Article (disambiguation)? I can see that it's quite necessary if the dab page is at Article, but if it has the "(disambiguation)" in the name, I'm not sure it's needed. (Or is that for cases where, maybe, the page has been moved from Article to Article (disambiguation)? - Cafemusique 14:56, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

It is possible that there could be a redirect to the disambiguation page, but regardless it might be better just have a uniform, simple one template. The text could also be changed to something like "if a link within an article led you here" or "if an article link led you here", which would be more accurate but might take up more space and push the text onto the next line. —Centrx→talk • 03:03, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Acknowledge Automatic Categorization

I don't know if this has been suggested before, but it could be useful to add a message about the automatic categorization that occurs when adding {{disambig}}. Category:Disambiguation reads, "Do not include this category manually in articles; the {{disambig}} template automatically does this," but I think it's advisable to list it both places in order to warn anyone that shows up here directly.

Just my twopence. PaladinWhite 02:18, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

{{editprotected}}. I did this; you could have done it, since the doc subpage is not protected. CMummert · talk 11:05, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Whatlinkshere on main namespace only

{{sudo}}

It is now possible to filter Special:Whatlinkshere by namespace. The "If an internal link led you here, you may wish to change the link to point directly to the intended article" sentence is really only referring to links in the article namespace – these are the only ones that should be changed to bypass disambiguation pages. It might therefore be a good idea to link to Special:Whatlinkshere filtered to show only the main namespace. Replacing [[Special:Whatlinkshere/{{FULLPAGENAME}}|internal link]] with [{{fullurl:Special:Whatlinkshere/{{FULLPAGENAME}}|namespace=0}} internal link] and changing class="notice metadata" to class="notice metadata plainlinks" would achieve this. Thanks – Gurch 15:59, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

done. CMummert · talk 00:24, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The size of the table of the template

Minimize the width of the table because is bigger than 100%. (Puntori 07:30, 6 July 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Template for top of the page

What is the disambig. template that goes on the top of the page? -Sox207 19:33, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

If you mean hatnotes, there isn't just one. {{Otheruses4}} appears to be the most versatile. Though for those (like myself) who can't keep what all the parameters mean straight, there is {{dablink}}.

[edit] Link to search results on disambig pages

See my proposal at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Link to search results on disambig pages. — Jonathan Kovaciny (talk|contribs) 18:18, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Admin action requested

{{editprotect}}
Per the following discussion at WP:VPR, please change the wording of the Disambig template:

When a disambiguation page exists, it may prevent some users (novice ones especially) from finding other relevant pages that show up in the search results for that term. For example, the disambig page Beds lists two items and a link to Bed (disambiguation). If you search for Beds, however, you get 23,000 results, at least some of which are probably of interest to someone who types Beds into the search box and hits Enter or clicks Go. The current {{Disambig}} template is worded like this: This disambiguation page lists articles associated with the same title. If an internal link led you here, you may wish to change the link to point directly to the intended article. Between those two sentences, I propose that we add: You may also search for Beds in the full text of all articles. I'm not sure on the most succinct way to word this. Any other thoughts? — Jonathan Kovaciny (talk|contribs) 18:17, 27 September 2007 (UTC) My only suggestion would be to make it You may also search for Beds in the full text of all articles. So as to look better. Other than that, I agree.-Ljlego 19:04, 27 September 2007 (UTC) That makes perfect sense to me too. --OES23 19:26, 27 September 2007 (UTC) Any opposition to this change? If there is none within a week, could an admin please make the change? — Jonathan Kovaciny (talk|contribs) 19:47, 3 October 2007 (UTC) Very sensible! Approve--Tallard 08:25, 7 October 2007 (UTC) No, no... First of all the problem to solve (in my understanding) is that user enters Beds into search box and intuitively clicks Go expecting a Good Thing to happen. Ups, it is not happening! The root cause is not the broken disambiguation pages, but the Go button acting not so intuitively. Your solution will only help a little, because reader remembers he/she have already searched for Beds, why to search again then? I think this hint should be displayed, but not hidden somewhere inside the {{disambig}}. It should be displayed as a separate line on any page, but only as a result of Go-search user action. --Kubanczyk 08:54, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! — Jonathan Kovaciny (talk|contribs) 19:43, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, User:Kubanczyk seems to have opposed to some extent. I'll ask them to comment here, and I'll also delay a bit in case anyone has any issues with the exact wording, or someone else wants another change to this template. (Changing a widely used template like this one is heavy on the servers, and it helps a lot if changes are got right first time.) --ais523 11:58, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

How does apply in regards to wikipedia:Avoid self references? ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 12:40, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Oppose per my comment above. Problem is surely well defined and important. But this change would only increase the overall visual "confusion" level. Lesser evil is to leave disambig as is. I guess my alternative idea requires changes to wiki code behind Go button, hence it's off-topic here. --Kubanczyk 14:52, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

N Not done - Including my personal opposition to this change (not helpful for the vast majority of pages, ugly, conflicts with "Go function", et cetera), I don't think there's enough of a consensus to make this change at this time. Nihiltres^(t.l) 21:02, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] make {{disambig}} more ambiguous :)

Could the phrasing of the disambig template be made more ambiguous? Specifically,

... lists articles associated with the same title.

to something that would be flexible enough to allow something other than "the same title." Perhaps...

... lists articles associated with {{#if:{{{subject|}}}|{{{subject}}}|the same title}}.

which yields ... lists articles associated with SUBJECT if subject=SUBJECT is specified. If not specified, the template displays the old message.

It could be perhaps be even more flexible (and might so also discourage the proliferation of disambig-style templates) with something like: (NB: I haven't tried this, I'm just thinking out loud)

... lists {{#if:{{{project|}}}|{{{project}}}-related|}} articles associated with

{{#ifeq:{{{subject|}}}||the same title|

{{#ifeq:{{BASEPAGENAME}}|{{{subject}}}|{{{subject}}}|

{{#ifeq:{{BASEPAGENAME}}|{{{subject}}} (disambig)|{{{subject}}}|

the same {{#ifexist:{{{subject}}}|[[{{lc:subject}}]]|{{{subject}}}<!-- -->}}

}}

}}

}}

So, for example:

• {{Numberdis}} could be {{disambig|subject=number}};

which would read ... lists articles associated with the same number.

• {{Geodis}} could be {{disambig|project=geography|subject=toponym}};

which would read ... lists geography-related articles associated with the same toponym.

and ... (what my initial object was):

• de generis "name" could be {{disambig|subject=[[foo]]}};

which would read ... lists articles associated with foo.

note that "with the same" doesn't appear because the argument for subject= is wikified (not plain).

Does that make sense? Is that do-able? -- Fullstop 23:04, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Disambiguation pages list articles associated with the same title, not the topic or subject that would be named in the parameter. So, I think adding this parameter would enable and encourage incorrect usage. —Centrx→talk • 19:20, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Nevertheless, the current text is not adequate in many cases. For example, Stokes equation links to two articles, neither of which has "Stokes equation" in the title (and once the subsequent redirects are followed, not even "Stokes" or "equation" exactly). The current text could be regarded as incorrect for all disambiguation pages other than those called "x (disambiguation)" that link solely to articles of the form "x (other)". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.81.223.66 (talk) 10:02, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Protected template

{{editprotect}} Please add {{pp-template|small=yes}}. Thanks. Rocket000 21:33, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Done. Cheers. --MZMcBride 01:24, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The picture...

{{editprotected}} Should have alt text. I would recommend something simple, like "disambig" or the like. The same applies to all the other disambig templates. Thanks... l'aqúatique ^talktome 18:59, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Please specify the code to be added, to help out the admins who are poor on markup ... Sandstein (talk) 20:54, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry! Like this: [[Image:Disambig gray.svg|30px|Disambiguation Notice]]. Thanks! l'aqúatique ^talktome 23:15, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Y Done for this template, the others would need someone with WP:AWB (see WP:BOTREQ). Please consider reducing the code size of your signature, as it is disruptively long. Sandstein (talk) 07:33, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Signature fixed. Sorry, I was unaware that it was causing troubles. Thanks, L'Aquatique ^talk 20:47, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't the alt text be nothing, "", because the picture itself is just a superificial design that does not contain any actual content? —Centrx→talk • 05:34, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

I was under the impression that leaving it blank would still cause a screen reader to read the image name. However, I don't know what the result of using quotation marks would be... I'd read this[1] for more info on this subject. l'Aquatique ^talk 03:17, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but I only noticed this just now when the edit was made. alt="" is appropriate for an interface image which doesn't represent any text. This is recommended in, e.g., the WCAG Samurai Errata: “You can leave a text equivalent blank – e.g., null alt text, alt="" (no space inside quotes) – if the text that immediately surrounds, precedes, or follows the image has the same function as a text equivalent.”[2]

To put it another way, if the folks using visual browsers don't need a label that says “disambiguation notice”, then neither do those using screen readers. —Michael Z. 2008-10-28 05:17 z

[edit] Bug:

{{editprotected}}
There's a bug on this page with the disambiguation tag. Is there anything we can do? Compwhiz II^(Talk)_(Contribs) 16:06, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

I fixed the error by adding {{{page-title| }}} around the {{FULLPAGENAME}}.. Overriding it with the page's title solves the problem, so *** is currently using {{disambig|page-title=***}}. Nihiltres^{t.l} 17:39, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Message

Suggest the first sentence of this template's message amended to "This disambiguation page lists articles associated with the same or similar titles." as this seems to be the norm on disambiguation pages. Sardanaphalus (talk) 03:24, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

The sentence in question refers to the title of the disambiguation page, not to the titles of the articles listed therein (which needn't even be similar). —David Levy 04:52, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Ahh, I see. Thanks. Would changing "same title" to "same name" make no difference / create confusion / possibly be worthwhile? Sardanaphalus (talk) 05:33, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Linking from from base name dab to (disambiguation) redirect

It has been suggested on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disambiguation#bulk dab page redirects that this template be modified to include a link to a (disambiguation) redirect on base-name dabs (dab pages whose titles don't end in "(disambiguation)"). This will help popup repairs of link to the dab page that intend to link to the dab page. Something yielding

This disambiguation page lists articles associated with the same title. If an internal link led you here, you may wish to change the link to point directly to the intended article. Use PAGENAME (disambiguation) for intentional links to this page.

if the page title doesn't end with "(disambiguation)" but still

This disambiguation page lists articles associated with the same title. If an internal link led you here, you may wish to change the link to point directly to the intended article.

if it does. Would this cause any issues elsewhere? -- JHunterJ (talk) 18:13, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Combining this with disambig-cleanup

{{editprotected}} it seems silly to have a wholly separate {{template}} for adding a single line of text and categorization. Also, not to mention that some tools, like the one here aren't compatible with pages not using {{disambig}}.

I propose adding the functionality with something like "|cleanup=yes}}" and inserting the following lines of text:

<br />Note: '''This page may need to be cleaned up''' to meet Wikipedia's
[[Wikipedia:Manual of Style (disambiguation pages)|quality standards]]. <small>See
[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Disambiguation|WikiProject Disambiguation]] for more information.</small>

and

[[Category:Disambiguation pages in need of cleanup]]

We can then rewrite {{disambig-cleanup}} to use this template with the optional parameter, and then have a bot go through and replace all defunct uses. -ΖαππερΝαππερ ^Babel_Alexandria 16:13, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{editprotected}} template. PeterSymonds (talk) 06:50, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Fine, since there's so little disc on this page i thought it would prolly take too long, and it seemed likely to be uncontroversial, but i'll submit it to RFC in order to ascertain support. -ΖαππερΝαππερ ^Babel_Alexandria 20:48, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Given that there are many dab-templates (listed at MediaWiki:Disambiguationspage), I'm not sure if this is particularly necessary for the fixer-program problem you mention? Are there any other problems this change would fix?

Side-note: generally you should only use {{editprotected}} when you have an exact change all ready to be made. The template attracts random admins, not necessarily admins that are familiar with the page itself. (Your suggestion above requires a lot more work than a simple copy&paste!) Thanks. -- Quiddity (talk) 19:52, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

I was assuming a passing admin would have some basic knowledge of templates and be able to construct a simple #if funtion. But i understand if they just want something they don't really have to work with.

<div class="notice metadata plainlinks" id="disambig">
{|style="background:none"
|style="vertical-align:middle;"|[[Image:Disambig gray.svg|30px|Disambiguation notice]]
|style="vertical-align:middle;"|''This [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation|disambiguation]] page lists articles associated with the same title. If <!-- you are viewing this online as opposed to as a [[hard copy]] and -->an [{{fullurl:Special:Whatlinkshere/{{{page-title|{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}}|namespace=0}} internal link] led you here, you may wish to change the link to point directly to the intended article.''
{{#if:{{{cleanup|}}}|Note: '''This page may need to be cleaned up''' to meet Wikipedia's
[[Wikipedia:Manual of Style (disambiguation pages)|quality standards]]. <small>See
[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Disambiguation|WikiProject Disambiguation]] for more information.</small>}}
|}</div><includeonly>{{#if:{{{cleanup|}}}|[[Category:Disambiguation pages in need of cleanup]]|[[Category:Disambiguation]]}}</includeonly><noinclude>
{{pp-template|small=yes}}
{{documentation}}
</noinclude>

This code adds the functionality without breaking existing usage. As for the other templates - personally, there are plenty of dab pages out there using this and {{disambig-cleanup}} that i'm not personally worried about not accessing the others. The main point is to decrease redundancy - this example has already encouraged another redundant template at {{Hndis-cleanup}}, which hopefully can be merged following a precedent here, the added usability is icing on the cake. -ΖαππερΝαππερ ^Babel_Alexandria 03:36, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I think this makes the regular {{disambig}} template more complicated, with not much benefit.

Personally, I find it easier to type "-cleanup" than "|cleanup=yes", plus that's what everyone is used to doing. So, unless there is a big problem that this is the solution to, I'd still have to disagree with this merge/change. -- Quiddity (talk) 21:13, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rewording?

I suggest rewording the second sentence in this template and all its relatives. I sort of understand why the word "may" is there—users have the option to change it or not—but wish? There's a very obvious and often implied ending to this sentence: "If an internal link led you here, you may wish to change the link to point directly to the intended article...but you can just keep wishing, because we're not letting you!"

Simply removing the word "wish" would do wonders: "If an internal link led you here, you may to change the link to point directly to the intended article." This implies that the reader has permission to change the link, whereas the current version implies that the reader has permission to wish that they could change it!

Whether "may" or "can" should actually be used is debatable. May implies the reader has been granted permission, and can implies that they have the ability. All readers both can (unless they are banned or blocked and don't know other methods around it) and may (this includes blocked users, as it is not a retaliatory measure) edit disambiguation pages regardless of their registration status. If I'm wrong about that—perhaps protected or semi-protected dabs exist—just let me know. It doesn't negate my original request.

So, to emphasise this one more time, I'm proposing the following change:

Please discuss! Oh, and note that this is 100% compatible with the above-mentioned change. —Skittleys (talk) 18:16, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

"You may change" sounds like a grant of permission. I dislike "you may wish to" but it may be the best wording available. However, here are some other possibilities to consider or spark ideas:

• You can change the link...
• To help, you may change the link...
•  ?

Also keep in mind that the wording should preserve the possibility that changing the link may not be warranted, and that the message is supposed to be as brief as possible. —Centrx→talk • 20:34, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Improve wording and organization

Recently edited the Template:Disambig/doc and was wondering if the formatting of the sections and the wording from that page could be copied and/or edited and added to this main template, which definitely needs some improvement. Funandtrvl (talk) 16:20, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Please update

{{editprotected}}

Please replace the text of this template with that of {{DAB}} {{disambig/sandbox}}, as discussed at WT:MOSDAB#Update disambig template?. The only effect of the change will be to enable the inclusion of parameters to place the dab page into additional categories (as defined at {{dabcat}}). At the same time, please protect the subtemplate {{dabcat}}.--Kotniski (talk) 13:01, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

N Not done for now. This needs further discussion, and some technical fixes.

I have the following concerns:

1: Your {{DAB}} {{disambig/sandbox}} template doesn't use the {{main other}} code which means that your code causes any page that only shows/demonstrates these templates to be categorised as disambig pages. Such as talk pages, WikiProject pages and Wikipedia:Template messages/General. The {{main other}} code makes it so only article pages get categorised.

2: Your code uses the {{dabcat}} template that currently is not protected. It first needs to be protected, otherwise these widely used high-risk disambig templates can be easily vandalised.

3: Your code uses the {{dabcat}} template which currently is undocumented. Thus making it unclear what functionality these disambig templates get.

4: Are you aware of that there is also a wiki-technical difference between disambig and set index templates? When a disambig template is placed on a page and you then edit that page the javascript here at the English Wikipedia places an editnotice on top of your edit preview telling you it is a disambig page and some instructions how to edit such pages. When you only place a set index template on a page that editnotice is not shown. It seems to me from your discussions over at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (disambiguation pages) and your code at {{dabcat}} that you want to use these disambig templates also as set index templates. Which will cause that editnotice to be shown on set index pages. (Although it is not clear to me how you intend to use all this.)

5: I am not sure that your way of adding extra categories is the best way. It would probably be better to have an extra parameter where one can feed any category name. Although I would have to think more about different usage cases and you should explain how you intend to use it before I/we can know what is the best aproach.

Sorry to be negativistic. And sorry that I probably won't have time to discuss this with you and investigate it, since I am really on a wikivacation. (Busy in real life.) You'll have to ask some of the other editors who understands the technical things around disambig and set index templates for help. And sorry that I right now don't remember who those editors are, you'll have to look around in the page histories and the talk page discussions.

--David Göthberg (talk) 23:32, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

1: Fixed.

2: Fixed in the amended request.

3: Have made basic documentation. Will update it (and the disambig documentation) when the change gets done.

4: No, set index pages will not carry these templates. Disambig will continue to be used on exactly the same pages it is used on now; the extra parameters will simply cause those pages to be placed in extra categories.

5: This is explained in the discussion (I think). Of course, if someone wants to add another category that isn't handled by the template, or prefers not to use the template, there's nothing to stop them. The updated template simply makes it easier to add some of the more common specific dab categories, that's all. It doesn't really change anything except to make adding categories a bit easier and more intuitive for dab page editors.

I hope I've answered all your concerns, so I'm renewing the request.

--Kotniski (talk) 10:44, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

6: Okay, I have now spent some time working with your code and adding my own improvements. I hope you like those additions. Among other things I added an error reporting feature that we have used to good effect on among others the mbox templates. I explain a little about that in the doc of {{dabcat}}. The category that the error reporting uses should then have an explanation similar to the one we use in Category:Wikipedia message box parameter needs fixing. I will add that explanation later.

5: I think I am starting to like your approach. But I still have two concerns. First one is that this needs to be properly documented. And for the second concern see the next paragraph. But as you said, you can add the documentation later. But of course, the lack of documentation was one of the reasons your approach was unclear to me, and I expect others to react the same. And thus I could not fulfil your editprotected request.

4: The reason I asked if you know the difference between disambig pages and set index templates is that one of the categories that you have in the {{dabcat}} is for pages that usually instead are set index pages, that is "mountains". Since {{mountainindex}} is a set index box and the pages I have seen it used on are clearly set index pages. Although I have seen mountain disambig pages too. So perhaps we need both for mountains? If so then we should make that clear in the documentation where we will list the "mountains" parameter, that is we should point out that there is also the set index template {{mountainindex}} which has a slightly different meaning.

7: Since we have now added so much code we need to do some testing of the {{DAB}} {{disambig/sandbox}} template before we deploy that code in the {{disambig}} template, since that one is used on more than 100,000 pages. And I recommend you complete the documentation over at {{dabcat}} before we deploy. This will also give others some time to take a look and react. Perhaps also announce this planned extension at some of the related pages. So I think we should wait a day or two (well, this weekend since I will be away most of it), before we deploy it.

--David Göthberg (talk) 23:50, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

OK< thanks for your work. I'll try and update the documentation and do some testing over the weekend.--Kotniski (talk) 09:12, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Please update (2)

{{editprotected}}

Please replace the text of this template with that of {{DAB}} {{disambig/sandbox}}, as discussed above. The documentation is now in place, and I have tested the template at Test page1 (the page will have been deleted, since I had to test it in main space, but I assume admins can access the deleted history). At the same time, please fully protect the subtemplate {{dabcat}}.--Kotniski (talk) 13:01, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Hey, wait a little. I have not tested the error reporting feature I added to {{dabcat}} yet. (I know that method works, I just have to test this specific code version of it.) And if there already are pages that feed some invalid parameter to {{disambig}} then those pages will get that error category and people will come there wondering what is going on. So I first have to create that category and add the explanations there, or we will be flooded with questions from editors who wonder what is going on. (I know from experience...) I'll deploy your {{DAB}} {{disambig/sandbox}} code to {{disambig}} when I have fixed that.

--David Göthberg (talk) 02:04, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Y Done - Phew, that was a lot of work:

• I have moved your {{DAB}} test template to {{disambig/sandbox}}, to avoid confusion with {{dab}}. I fixed all pages that linked to {{DAB}}, and then deleted {{DAB}} which at that time was only a redirect to {{disambig/sandbox}}. Using /sandbox and /testcases pages are the standard way to test and develop templates. For instance the green /doc boxes automatically link to such pages if they exist.
• I did some more fixes to {{disambig/sandbox}} and {{dabcat}}, mostly related to the error reporting and to be able to test the categorisation better.
• I created Template:Disambig/testcases and tested everything over there. The error reporting and categorisation works fine.
• I created the Category:Wikipedia disambiguation box parameter needs fixing and added the necessary explanations there.
• I protected {{dabcat}}.
• I deployed it all to {{disambig}} and {{disambig-cleanup}}. So they are still parameter compatible, making it simple for editors to change between the two.
• I updated the documentations of {{disambig}} and {{disambig-cleanup}} accordingly.

So, almost finished. I hope I didn't miss anything...

Next thing is to wait about a week to see if any pages turn up in the error reporting category and fix those cases. Pages only get reported when they are rerendered, and pages are only rerendered when someone visits them. Thus it takes time before most cases are reported. Then after about a week I will make it so that the template also prints a visible error message. I usually wait with adding the visible error message, to see what kind of errors are out there so I can add a better explanation at the error category page. And so we can fix the worst cases (usually cases caused by another template). Experience has taught me that saves us a lot of questions from worried users.

--David Göthberg (talk) 06:13, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Great, thanks for taking the time to do all that:) I'll leave notes about the new functionality at WP:MOSDAB and the other dab guidelines.--Kotniski (talk) 08:53, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it can be a good thing to "advertise" new functionality. If nothing else to get some feedback from people.

So far two pages have been reported to the error category. People were feeding the page name as parameter. At for instance The Hanged Man as {{disambig|Hanged Man, The}}. I guess they thought the parameter sets a disambig category sort order. I fixed the two cases by simply removing the parameter.

And I noticed you added "plant: for Category:Plant common names" to the /doc. Although not strictly a disambig category it is used on disambig pages so seems to be useful here. So I added the code for that to {{dabcat}}.

--David Göthberg (talk) 08:52, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. There was some dispute over including the plants category - I was meaning to bring it up with the user who objected. Anyway, I guess it can stay for now.--Kotniski (talk) 09:20, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

I noticed that dispute in the edit comments. But {{disambig-plants}} uses that category and I took a quick look at that and it seems okay. So I think we have to supply the category through your parameter system or it would be inconsistent.

--David Göthberg (talk) 12:15, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Today I found a handful of {{disambig}} cases in the error reporting category. Most of them again where cases where people were feeding the page names like this {{disambig|Big One, The}}. But there were also one case of {{disambig|cleanup}} which I of course fixed to be {{disambig-cleanup}}.

--David Göthberg (talk) 04:27, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Shared error reporting with ((SIA))

I have renamed the error reporting category to Category:Wikipedia disambig or set index box parameter needs fixing, since I will apply similar error reporting for the generic set index article template {{SIA}}. My experience is that it is best to share an error reporting category between all similar templates. Since that keeps the number of error reporting categories low, thus making it much easier when I/we every now and then take a look if any of the error categories have reports.

{{SIA}} also has a feature to categorise, but it works slightly different from the system Kotniski applied to {{disambig}} (see previous two sections). It seems there are currently only 7 set index article categories, and only one is used at a time in {{SIA}}. But I will first deploy a hardcoded error reporting in {{SIA}} to find out if there are more categories than the 7 I am aware of. Then we should perhaps change {{SIA}} to use a more strict system like the one Kotniski made for {{disambig}}. Or I'll just make it error report if people feed a parameter to it that points to a non-existing category. Both systems has their pros and cons so I'll think about it for a while. We anyway have to wait a week for {{SIA}} to report which categories are used with it.

--David Göthberg (talk) 12:15, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Good idea. In principle, I suppose, we would only expect a set-index article to be in one category, since by definition it lists only items of a specific type. So I wouldn't see a need to support more than one parameter at a time (though maybe there are some exceptional cases).--Kotniski (talk) 12:54, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Exactly. And since we don't have a {{SIA-cleanup}} or similar there are only one SIA template that needs that code. Thus I think we don't need to use a sub template for that. Instead I will put that code directly into {{SIA}}. And by the way: I'll make the error category a hidden category while I do the first run of error reporting from SIA, since there might be more valid categories used with SIA than we currently know about. So that people don't think something is wrong when it perhaps isn't. I have found 11 such categories so far, and I have marked those that missed it with Category:Set indices. (One is already a subcategory of Category:Set indices on Russia so not visible directly in Category:Set indices.)

--David Göthberg (talk) 13:59, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Just noting that I added full error reporting to {{SIA}} on 11 February. And I have not seen any {{SIA}} reports in the error report category yet.

--David Göthberg (talk) 04:37, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Yet another branch

I just came across Category:Tropical cyclone disambiguation, which had been removed from the disambiguation hierarchy back in May 2008. Many of these look like straight forward disambiguation pages, although I suppose a claim could be made for being set indexes. In any case, the instructions at the categories are to use {{disambig}} with the category. Seems this could perhaps be accommodated with a few new parameters here. Note: Apparently this usage replaces the deprecated {{hurricane disambig}}, which perhaps should be deleted. older ≠ wiser 14:11, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

1: I see no reason why {{hurricane disambig}} should be deprecated. I have brought that up for discussion over at Template talk:Hurricane disambig#Reasons for removal of this template.

2: Bkonrad: I assume you mean we should add a "cyclone/hurricane/typhoon" parameter to {{disambig}}, so that we can use for instance {{disambig|cyclone|airport|road}} when a disambig page lists several other things under the same name. And the parameter "cyclone" should make {{disambig}} categorise the page into Category:Tropical cyclone disambiguation. Right? And yes, I think it is probably a good thing to add that parameter.

--David Göthberg (talk) 09:48, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Re 2, yes. Although on looking at several more of the pages, there is a lot of inconsistency -- many pages include a lot of information and extra links that would not be appropriate on a typical dab page. These (at least the better examples) look more like a set index similar to ships or mountains. If that is the case, then I'd suggest some renaming may be in order, such as {{hurricane disambig}} to something like {{hurricane index}} and Category:Tropical cyclone disambiguation (and subcategories) to something like Category:Set indices on tropical cyclones. older ≠ wiser 12:59, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Discussion continues at Template talk:Hurricane disambig.
--William Allen Simpson (talk) 04:24, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Category:All disambiguation pages

There is now a discussion about how this template and other disambig, set index and name boxes should categorise pages. See the discussion over at Template talk:Dmbox#Category:All disambiguation pages.

--David Göthberg (talk) 09:11, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Interwiki

• Would you add this interwiki, please [[arz:قالب:توضيح]]. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 21:12, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

  Please add it to the documentation page. Thanks — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:32, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Player Manager

Please, somebody in the know, stop by there, and fix that. My intention is obvious. It takes me half an hour to read all that shyte in the help files. Thanks, Oalexander-En (talk) 07:40, 25 March 2009 (UTC)